Hey, Cole here. Hey, you know what? I am taking just a couple of days off this

week. And I hope if you're watching this and your employer offers you vacation time

off, that you take advantage of it. It is not a selfish thing. It's far from it.

You will come back feeling refreshed. You'll be a better teammate, better team

leader. But because the week is shorter for me, we decided to rerun our top episode

of the show All Time. It's titled, Aren't All Roofer's Drunks. Now, we split it up

into two weeks. So this week, you're going to get a chance to hear the conversation

I had with Aaron Rogers, where we address the topic or the debate of college or

entering the trades. Aaron has some really good advice. So if you are a parent of

a current high school student, or if you are a current high school student, be sure

to stick around for this. And then next week, we're going to dive in and try to

dispel some of the current common misconceptions that we hear all the time about the

roofing industry and about the service industry as a whole. Let's go. Coming up on

today's episode, again, it used to be always one of those things where it was kind

of like people had the expectation that you couldn't make a living from working in

the trades. And that's just not, it's just not the case. This is the You Ask the

Pros Answer podcast. Do you have questions about an upcoming exterior contracting

project? We've got answers. Welcome to the You Ask, the Pros Answer, podcast.

Hey, welcome to the You Ask, the Pros Answer podcast. Your questions answered by the

pros you trust. My name is Cole. I am part of the marketing team at Pro Exteriors,

and joined today, as always, I have with me, owner, president, founder, the guy

Exteriors, Aaron Rogers. Aaron, how are you this afternoon? I am hungry and blessed.

Oh man, do you not get to eat lunch yet? I had some lunch. I could have a little

bit more, though. Yeah, so far,

Southern Grove, Peanuts, not a sponsor, has been my lunch today. Well,

if you are just joining us for the very first time, what you can expect is right

in the title. You ask, the prose answer. Essentially, we tackle a question or a

series of questions that we've either been asked or ones that we have heard in the

past surrounding exterior remodeling, and we try to have an honest conversation in

hopes that you leave the conversation feeling empowered to make better choices when

it comes to your next home project. Today is no different. Aaron, we're going to

tackle a myriad of questions. And we've titled this episode,

you know this, but we've titled it, aren't all roofers, drunks, dropouts, or dopes?

I chose dopes just because of the alliteration. I wanted three Ds in there. There's

probably other words that would have fit better. But aren't all roofer strong

dropouts or dopes and other common misconceptions? Yep.

You know, some stereotypes, there's truth behind it. Some of them are just baseless.

And I think some are just somewhere in between. So I just want to have a

conversation. I'm sure you've had these questions asked to you in your years in the

industry but let's start with this aren't all roofers either drunks dropouts or

convicts what say you the short answer is no um you know not to say that there's

not some of that riddled through the industry um was it that's true in every

industry yeah of course yeah uh you know You know, was it more common at one point

versus the other? Maybe. I don't know.

You know, when I was in school,

it was right around the time where the big push was you've got to go to college.

You want to get a good career. You want to make, you know, decent money. You got

to go to college. You know, people would say things along the lines of like,

you know, do you want to lay brick in the hot summer and the cold cold,

you know, that was like a, it was like looking down upon people who worked with

their hands for a living. But in reality, man, I always loved working with my

hands. So there are a lot of people that go into this industry, specifically because

they don't feel like they don't have a lot of other options. You know, a lot of,

a lot of Detention centers and correctional facilities do have trade programs.

So you can, you know, become a conflict and learn a trade and come out and enter

the industry. So that is part of it. But no, I mean, I think that it's always

going to be there. It's in every industry.

But yeah, I think that that stereotype has started to fade away more and more and

more over the last few years, simply because I think people are starting to realize

that blue -collar businesses are actual careers. Any sort of trade businesses is an

actual career. If you look at Mike Roe from the shows like Dirty Jobs,

and you know, he was an announcer and a sportscaster and stuff for a short period

of time. Yeah, from Maryland. You know, he has his Mike Row Works program. He

preaches very hard about the availability of blue collar jobs and how it's a viable

option for kids that don't necessarily want to go into college. It is a way to

make a great living. It's not like you go into it and you're getting paid minimum

wage. Is it hot in the summer? Yes. Is it cold in the winter? Absolutely. Is it a

clean job some days? Is it a dirty job? Most days.

But, you know, if you take a sense of pride and being able to build something with

your hands and starting a project from beginning and seeing it, you know, kind of

be built in front of your eyes, I mean, it's a great feeling. You know, a lot of

us ride around with our kids in the car and we do the stereotypical thing where

you go, you see that project over there? I did that. I built that. See that roof?

I I put that roof.

You know, do families get tired of that? Yeah.

You know, when we're 900 miles away from home and we're driving and they're like,

Dad, pay attention to the road. And I'd be like, oh, I've never seen that shingle

before. Look at that shingle, guys. So, yeah, so I think that that stuff is riddled

into every single industry.

And I just think that, you know, I don't know. It's there. It's going away.

There's always been a black cowed over construction in general. Roofing has always

been kind of a really, really black cloud, but I don't know. Hopefully it's going

away. Yeah, you and I grew up in basically the same era,

and much like you in high school, is like either you're going to college or what

are you doing with your life? Right. And, you know, my kid's daughter just started

high school this year. She has her first high school dance this Friday, so please

pray for me.

It, man, it's so weird. Poor guy. And I feel like that's, do you feel like that's

changing a bit? Because I feel like there's being more and more emphasis on magnet

schools And more emphasis on the trades, you find these colleges or programs,

whatever you want to call them, whether it be for auto mechanics or HVAC or really

anything you want, cosmetology. Do you feel like that trend is kind of shifting? I

mean, I feel like there's definitely a lot more emphasis put on working in the

trades, working with your hands. Not only just for guys, there's been a big push

over the last 10 years or so about women in the trades. Again, it used to be

always one of those things where it was kind of like people who had the expectation

that you couldn't make a living from working in the trades. And that's just not the

case. It doesn't really matter what version of the trades. You can be an

electrician. You can be an HVAC plumbing. You can be a carpenter or trim carpenter.

You can be a roofer or siding guy. You can build decks for a living kitchens. It

really doesn't matter.

mean that they're the older guys that have been doing it for a very long time you

know they're retiring they're getting out of the industry and there are simply there

are more people retiring than there are people entering the entering the the labor

pool and there's a huge labor shortage so in in the process of that happening we're

we're dealing with increased wages for the people that are entering the industry

you've got a lot of older guys that are now becoming like instructors and teachers

at some of these specialty schools, these vocational schools,

or you have a way to basically enter the industry, kind of pre -trained on a lot

of stuff. So yeah, so I think that it's a lot bigger of a conversation now that

it never has been. Yeah, and I don't want our audience to think that we're saying

college is bad. I would say about half of our employees went to college.

I have a brother -in -law who has a degree in, I believe it was contracting

management, and he now works in the field too. Like, it takes everybody.

And you were talking about trends of the, kind of the more seasoned vets in the

industry, aging out or retiring. On the flip side of that, the workforce is flooded

with people that have bachelor's and master's degrees and can't find jobs.

And so what do you do? Right.

And I loved my college experience, but I'm 39 and I'm still paying my student

loans. Right. But that's, I have two kids. one who's in ninth grade and i'm still

paying student loans um what do you wish now you did you went to school or to i

did some college yep i did some college um it just wasn't for me i'm a i'm a

hands -on kind of guy i i am a i'm a solo learner i don't like being taught i

love to learn but hate being taught um At the time, my patience was very, very

different than what it is right now. So I didn't really have the ability to sit in

a classroom, as well as for things like math, you know, you have to do accounting

classes and all of that stuff, numbers just always have made sense to me. So

sitting in a class where I always had to write out my work, like it just didn't

work for me. So I struggled in class. I was always a smart somewhat,

not to toot my own horn, but I was as an intelligent child, it just school wasn't

my thing. I didn't enjoy it. But when I got to work with my hands and I got to,

you know, use Pythagorean theorem and, and, you know, work out the decimal points

and fractions and all that stuff in the field, I loved it. I excelled at it. I

was, it was fairly easy for me. I've always been a very visual guy where I'm able

to kind of look at a space and kind of visually figure out all the pieces that

kind of need to go in place in order for that to get built. I can see the before

and after in my head. Those things have always made me kind of excel in this

industry. I know a lot of people that are like that. I know people that went to

school for something not even remotely close to what they're currently doing and

they're way happier at what they're doing now than if they had entered that career

that they originally got their degree in. So,

yeah. If you could go back to your high school counselor and have an honest

conversation, is there anything you wish that he or she would have said or done

differently? So I think the same conversation that my parents had with me is kind

of the same conversation that my guidance counselor had with me. And it was, uh,

you're not applying yourself. Um, if you were to apply yourself, you could get into

a good school and you could get a good job and you could have a great career and

you can make decent money. Um, you know, for my parents didn't get really give me

a whole lot of options. It was, you know, you need to go to college. Um, there

was never really any rhyme or reason behind that. Um, but I, I think there should

have been a larger conversation about what I wanted to do. I think there's this big

push that you're supposed to go directly from high school and directly into college.

Does it make it easier to go, you know, right from one to the other? Probably.

But, you know, if you have no idea what you want to do, then why are we pushing

these kids to go into college and to pick a major that, you know, half of them

change at the second or third year? And it's just, I think that's, that's pointless.

Yeah, it's like burning money. Yeah. So, like, I have a buddy of mine who is his

son changed his major, his senior year in college. Like, it's just, I just think

there should be a larger conversation in regards to some people are just not meant

for college. Or if somebody has no idea what they want to do, why is there not

more assistance in finding them a job that might be in a line with their

personality and current skill set? You know, again, speaking specifically about the

trades, because that's where my experience is, you know, you can come directly out

of high school and make, you know, above minimum wage right out the gate. And if

you apply yourself, you can make great money within a year or two years. And long

term i mean i've got several people here that make more money than many of people

that i'm aware of that are adults and have careers and have college debt that

they're still paying off so i just think that it's a much more viable career option

than i think most people get credit for so what would you say to uh a high school

junior or senior who is feeling a lot of the same things that you were feeling at

that time in your life where like math made sense in a practical sense,

but like the theory of it, it was like, what is the point of this? Right. And

let's say they have this goal. They want to enter a trade. Let's,

for the sake of this conversation, say they want to enter what we do and exterior

contracting what would you recommend to them to get their foot in the door what are

the opportunities out there i mean to be honest with you i think you you know go

to a reputable construction company tell them you're interested in potentially entering

the trades ask them if you can shadow them for a day whether you want to shadow

one of the project managers whether you want to actually shadow in the field um If

you just want to sit in their office for a day and kind of see what the day to

day is like.

Again, volunteer to just shadow somebody. Don't ask for pay. Don't ask for a job

right away.

Just tag along. And if somebody's willing to do that, they're probably willing to be

fairly honest with you while you're around them all day. And if you say, you know,

I'm not really interested in college so much. And these are kind of the things that

I'm, you know, somewhat good at and see if it's a good fit you know I think that

if more people were allowed to shadow somebody that's currently doing what they

ultimately want to do then I think people would change their minds prior to getting

into that field of work so yeah so ask a reputable company if you could shadow

somebody for the day ask them for a candid conversation in regards to the industry

and, you know, the changes they've seen over the last, say, 10 to 20 years. I

mean, in reality, almost every industry has changed over the last four years. I

mean, everything pre -COVID is almost completely different now, now that we've all

gone through that. So, yeah, I think just having an honest conversation and offering

your time and just asking for nothing more than like the truth in return so okay

so you mentioned you know math is obviously a skill that is required in our

industry what are some of the other skills or knowledge required to make a

contractor successful um yeah time management is always a good one uh you know you

can you can work out the clock pretty easily focusing on the wrong thing.

So I think having time management and realizing scheduling and realizing like I have

eight hours to get this done, let's make sure we kind of stay on task.

Yeah, that's always a good one. Any sort of people skills, if you're good with

talking to people, especially if you're good with conflict management. So you're

working on something that is usually somebody's largest investment. You're working on

something that typically is very much tied to the most vulnerable memories of

somebody's inner self. So there's a lot of emotions tied up in someone's home.

So if there's any hiccups that happen in someone's home, a bush gets destroyed or,

you know, a mark gets put on the siding, like those can be extremely emotional

things for some clients and being able to have those skills where you can kind of

make people understand you can be empathetic to somebody and kind of let them know

that like we're going to rectify this whole situation I understand I'm sorry that

you're upset like we understand we get it we'll make it right we always do you You

know, and having the patience to understand that it's not you. Like, I think one of

the issues we run into a lot is everybody thinks that because somebody is mad and

you're the person that they're screaming at, that they're upset with you. And it's

very much not that.

So I think if you can remove yourself from any situation and allow people to vent

and then just make sure that they understand that we're always going to fix whatever

the issue is, I think that goes a long way.

You have mentioned on prior episodes that many people that end up in our industry

end up in it because like you, they enjoyed building things,

they enjoyed using their hands. But that doesn't make you a good business man or

woman. And So what are some words of advice that you would have to somebody who is

good with their hands? They're creative at problem solving, but maybe they don't have

the business acumen or the experience needed to keep a business afloat.

I mean,

you can be really, really good at what you do and be an absolutely terrible

business person. There's

a reason why, like, 90 % of contractors go out of business.

kind of kills most contractors. But I think that if you maybe have the physical

side of the skill sets down pat, but you don't necessarily have the business side,

go work for somebody and tell them outright. Like my long -term goal is to be my

own boss. Learn the skill sets that you can learn from somebody that's already into

industry. You know, and there's the possibility that you may at some point realize

like I'm making

conversation with the guy you currently work for who's actually looking for what we

call an entrepreneur he's looking for somebody that has an entrepreneur spirit and

has the skill sets doesn't necessarily make sense for them knowing their own business

but they can put them in a different role that kind of makes them an entrepreneur

underneath the umbrella of the existing company you know most businesses are always

looking for self -starters and people that have that ability um but But yeah,

if ultimately, you know, you get some skills as far as the business side of it

goes and you want to go out on your own, you know, I think it's great,

you know, and the things you are good at and the things you have, you know, some

skills or you've learned some skills to do this, everything else, just hire somebody

to do the other stuff. So related to that last question,

what if you are the best business person in the world, but you've never swung a

hammer, but you see the potential in the contracting industry?

Is there a place for you there? Or what are your words of advice to that person?

So there are plenty of people in this industry that are good business people that

realize that there's, you know, there's money in the space that have very successful

businesses. There's people that I know that have like degrees in like finance that

have gotten into the home building industry. It actually works out really, really,

really well for them. Because again, like I said, cash flow was like one of the

number one things that most contractors fail at. So if you can control your finances

really, really well, then essentially all you have to do is find the people to

build the homes or to do the renovations or whatever.

But yeah, there's tons of people that get into this industry that I don't have the

physical skill set. And some of them will tell you that they don't need that skill

set. I had a conversation this morning where somebody was talking about a previous

boss of theirs and they said, oh, well, you've never physically installed the product

that we sell and he goes and i don't need to and i never will um so me

personally you know i started doing the installs myself pretty much took uh every

potential job that came my way to try and learn everything i could potentially learn

about almost every aspect of this industry uh i learned really really well uh what

i'm good at i learned what i'm not good at i learned what i liked and I learned

what I didn't like. So I hate painting. I hate painting with a passion. There's not

enough money in this industry to have me paint full time. So yeah,

so you don't necessarily need to have the physical skill set in order to be an

entrepreneur in the trades. It just makes things a little easier on the front end

to try and set a business up when you understand how every aspect of the business

operates. So it's really hard for somebody that say is a marketing guy like yourself

that to understand what like say Mike and Kevin go through on a day -to -day basis

or for you to understand what Josh goes through on a day -to -day basis.

You know so having that experience that hands -on experience obviously makes things a

little easier when you're trying to set your own business up because you you have

lived what they lived and it gives you a better understanding of how to properly

set things up so that everybody's happy and not just, you know, lining your pockets.

All right, that is all we have for you today on the U .S. The Pro's Answer.

Remember, this is a two -parter. Be sure to come back next week for part two.

Before we go, though, would you please help us continue to get the word out about

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or maybe the trades in general? Would you send us your questions to info at

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home project, we hope this episode has empowered you to tackle it with confidence.

Remember, knowledge is power and a little bit of research can go a long way.

Until next time, happy home owning. The U .S. The Proz Answer podcast is produced in

-house by the Pro Exteriors team. Pro Exteriors is the exterior contract and division

of Empire Construction Group LLC. This podcast is intended for informational purposes

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